022 - Health Movement Podcast - Jay Riggins - Body Builders and Maybe the Next Mr. Olympia

[00:00:04] Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Health Movement Podcast. I am Derek, one of your hosts. This is episode number 22. I am a teacher of over 20 years and a certified personal trainer. As always with me is Tim.

[00:00:20] Yeah, I'm Tim. I'm a certified athletic trainer, an athlete registered EMT and a wellness coach as well. So I'm excited to be here for 22. I wasn't here for 21, so I'm excited to be back.

[00:00:32] I know, I trashed that one. It was a disaster without you buddy. I'm just kidding. We were fine.

[00:00:39] But as always, we are, we're not doctors. So any advice you take from us, these are our opinions. So make sure you check with your physician before beginning any new fitness or nutritional programs.

[00:00:54] We do have an awesome guest with us today. I think he might be stronger than the two of us. I'm not sure though. We haven't done a bench press competition yet.

[00:01:03] But with us is Jay Riggins, hailing from Michigan, newly moved to Michigan. But thank you Jay. We appreciate you coming out with us.

[00:01:12] All right. Well, I appreciate you all having me on today. Well, I'm Jay Riggins. I am a online fitness coach as well as a IFBB professional bodybuilder.

[00:01:23] So I've been competing for next year will be year number nine for me. And then I've been helping people get fit since 2017.

[00:01:33] That was the first year that I actually took on a client and helped them actually compete at a show. And from there, it just kind of snowballed.

[00:01:40] Wow. That's awesome. When you went nine years, that is a lot. I've never gone on stage myself, but I have friends who do.

[00:01:51] That's a rigorous schedule there. You got to, you got to stay pretty consistent with that.

[00:01:56] Most definitely. I mean, it's a lot of discipline that's involved. I mean, it's a lot of sacrifice.

[00:02:01] You're not able to do everything that everyone necessarily wants you to do. However, you know what you sign up for and you know what the goal is. So you have to do it.

[00:02:12] How long are you planning on doing this for? Is it just like, you're going to keep going until you one day you're like, yeah, I'm done.

[00:02:20] No, not just till one day. I believe probably about three, four more years for me personally. Once I hit about 35, I have two young sons right now.

[00:02:30] So they'll be getting into sports and things like that. And I am going to be that father. I want to be actively involved, which I know one of you all, I know as a coach or something like that.

[00:02:40] And, and, uh, you know, that's something, something that I want to do in the future. So it's about me right now, but later on, I have to put that focus and energy towards them.

[00:02:49] So that's cool. That's cool. Yeah. We both, we both have kids in sports. Tim's are Tim's son's a little younger than my kids, but it's still, um, yeah, it's, it's a lot, you know, timing wise.

[00:03:00] And you want to be there and make sure you can see them, uh, and watch them compete. So it's, it's, it's fun. You'll enjoy. How old are your kids?

[00:03:08] Uh, two and two months. Oh, that's why I'm back in Michigan. I'm actually from here originally. Um, and I had moved out to Tampa, you know, for bodybuilding and just wanted to get closer to the fitness scene.

[00:03:21] However, once I've had these two boys, uh, it's best to get back around family where I got a village around.

[00:03:28] Yeah. Yeah. It makes it, that makes a huge difference too. If you, especially if you're kind of on an Island like that, I don't know what your support out there was, but if you, you got people to help out,

[00:03:38] be around. Yeah. I had no one out there. Um, and then both sides, my wife and my family, they're all here in Michigan. So we decided it's best to come back here.

[00:03:49] I'm sure. Are you a Lions fan now with them?

[00:03:52] All right.

[00:03:53] Not now. I'll, I'll the Lions fan.

[00:03:55] I didn't mean you're a fan or anything.

[00:03:59] I, I gotta say the whole country's behind you guys. We were, we're rooting hard now that the Patriots are God awful.

[00:04:06] So we are, we are a hundred percent behind the Lions around here.

[00:04:10] Yeah. Hoping that matchup last night is the Superbowl matchup. That's, that would be, uh,

[00:04:15] That would be amazing. That was a really good game. You know, uh, they, they never really were in it.

[00:04:21] Really. It didn't really seem like they were in it, but it was still a pretty good game.

[00:04:24] That, uh, the, the, the, the onside kick, I think it was the turning point.

[00:04:29] It, uh, really, it kind of hurt. It hurt me watching.

[00:04:32] You know, what are we doing? I know we, I know he's a ballroom coach, but like that one was like,

[00:04:37] it was a little too much at the time, I think, you know, but that's, that's the kind of stuff in the playoff.

[00:04:41] You might, uh, you might not do that kind of thing. You know what I mean? So we'll see.

[00:04:44] He'll still do it.

[00:04:46] No, he is. He'll do it.

[00:04:49] Um, oh, I, I, before the show, I talked to both these guys. I was like, yeah, we're going to start doing these quick wins.

[00:04:55] These little short hitters where we're going to, uh, just, it's a quick thing that you can feel better and have, you know, a quick little piece of advice.

[00:05:02] And then I blew right past it when we started this show.

[00:05:05] Um, so do you guys want to give a quick, uh, a quick win? Either one of you guys.

[00:05:10] Oh, one thing that I always recommend is whenever you're training, actually focus on feeling the muscle group that you're working.

[00:05:17] I'm not just moving weight. So actually feel it, uh, to stimulate that muscle and, and get what it is that you're looking to get out of it.

[00:05:24] Especially if you're looking for growth.

[00:05:27] It's a, that, and I like that one because it's, uh, it, I think a lot of people don't necessarily focus on that, right?

[00:05:35] Having that focus of that neuromuscular brain muscle connection of actually firing that muscle.

[00:05:41] That's a huge one I see. I'm sure it's big in bodybuilding, but I have more of a corrective exercise, like a rehab background.

[00:05:48] And that's a, that's a huge one where people don't really have that.

[00:05:53] Some, some people don't even have that neurologic connection. That's a, that's a big, uh, I like that one there.

[00:05:58] For me, it's, uh, you know, it's kind of goes to our floor and ceiling from day.

[00:06:03] Yeah. To this before the, before the, uh, the show, like I, uh, I went into my,

[00:06:08] my workout with less than desirable amount of sleep last night.

[00:06:12] And, uh, I, I went in and I was not feeling my greatest. I, I was not, it was not my best workout and by any means.

[00:06:20] Um, but I, I got through it. I, I powered through it. I did pretty much everything I went in to do.

[00:06:26] Didn't feel great, but I finished it. I got through it. And, uh, you know, I feel a lot better now because of it.

[00:06:31] So I think that biggest thing is, uh, go, go in with your floor and go in with your ceiling of like, this could be my worst, be my best, but I'm still going to get it done.

[00:06:39] I'm going to go back tomorrow. I'm going to feel better.

[00:06:41] I think that's huge too. Cause we all have those workouts where five minutes in, you're like, oh, this is this.

[00:06:47] I'm not feeling it today, but you got to power through.

[00:06:50] Um, uh, mine, I think is going to be get, get protein in whole foods for breakfast.

[00:06:59] Uh, for me, I've been going eggs and they have this, uh, really thin steak at the super.

[00:07:05] It's like three ounces. I'm having, it's not a lot, but I'm getting four eggs and three ounces of steak in the morning for breakfast.

[00:07:12] And I feel like I'm not hungry. I'm not crashing. Like I'll, I'll have that at like six and I'm not hungry again till like nine, nine 30, 10.

[00:07:21] I'll have a snack then. But I noticed that's really holding me over well to get that, that protein hit first thing.

[00:07:29] All right. So Jay, nine years in, um, what was, what's been the biggest challenge for you when you started off?

[00:07:39] And now that you're more of a seasoned veteran, what, what have you learned and what was the, what were the challenges you kind of went through?

[00:07:46] Um, so starting off, I thought the road was going to be a lot easier than it was. Um, so I started working out at 12 years old and I had been religiously working out.

[00:07:58] Uh, you know, I wanted to play football and then from there, I just fell in love with training.

[00:08:02] Um, and when I ended up, uh, competing at my very first show, it was the Michigan state championships.

[00:08:09] And, uh, I ended up winning four first place trophies. So I won the true novice, um, the novice, uh, class a, the novice overall, and then open class a.

[00:08:20] Okay. So what that is, I won everything other than the overall, which is the one winner of the show.

[00:08:26] So I lost that. But from there, I thought that, you know, I was ready to be a professional and I thought, okay, you know, I started feeling myself a little bit.

[00:08:34] However, um, I quickly learned that, uh, next fall, um, I ended up going to nationals to compete to become pro.

[00:08:41] Um, and I realized that there was a lot more that I needed to work, work on when it came to posing, um, adding size, just learning a lot more about the sport in general.

[00:08:50] Uh, so that was one thing that I had to overcome as it ended up taking me five years of competing on the national stage to finally end up becoming pro.

[00:08:58] So when you say adding size, cause I need to be in a caloric surplus to add size, but you don't want to be packing on the fat along with it.

[00:09:07] I know you'll have a little bit and then you got to cut down and you have that whole process.

[00:09:11] How far out from a show do you, do you stop putting on size and then realize you got to cut down or does it depend on, you know, where you're at?

[00:09:21] So it really depends on where you're at and everyone, um, is different.

[00:09:25] So for me, for instance, I started 20 weeks out.

[00:09:28] That's where I'm like, okay, 20 weeks.

[00:09:31] I have a show picked out.

[00:09:33] Let me go ahead and lock in now.

[00:09:34] Uh, that gives you enough time to go ahead and be prepared a little bit early.

[00:09:38] Um, and every prep is completely different.

[00:09:40] So what you did one prep before your body is going to respond a little bit differently this time.

[00:09:45] So it's best for you to go ahead and get started early so that you can figure those things out, uh, before going ahead and stepping on that stage.

[00:09:52] I got you.

[00:09:52] Uh, maybe for some of the people listening that don't know, uh, and I, I guess I, I was assuming that it all made sense what prep was and everything.

[00:10:02] Could you just give like a, uh, you know, a first timers explanation as to what that process kind of looks like?

[00:10:10] Yeah, most definitely.

[00:10:11] So, um, first off, you got to decide on which show it is that you want to do.

[00:10:16] Um, but when you're preparing for a show, you normally start with your calories pretty high.

[00:10:20] Um, and you slowly begin to lower calories, lower carbs, um, just depending on how your body is responding.

[00:10:27] And you increase cardio, uh, for however much time is needed for you to actually get on stage.

[00:10:33] Now getting stage ready, stage lean and just street lean is completely different.

[00:10:39] You know, so when, when you're stage lean, you want to get to about that four to five body, four to 5% body fat.

[00:10:45] So it's a lot different than just getting lean to where you're seeing that.

[00:10:49] So you have to start, um, you have to start pretty far out and then you have to take your body to unnatural limits, unnatural, um, you know, limits essentially.

[00:11:01] And how long can you maintain that four to 5%?

[00:11:04] Cause that I can't imagine is more than, more than a week or so.

[00:11:09] You can, you can maintain it for only about a couple of weeks to a few weeks.

[00:11:13] Um, if you're eating, eating right, uh, right after doing the show.

[00:11:17] Um, however, when you're, when you're like that, you're your weakest, uh, you feel tired, you feel drained.

[00:11:24] So although you look your best, you don't feel your best.

[00:11:26] So that's one thing that a lot of people probably wouldn't know.

[00:11:29] You see a lot of these guys and they're shredded and they're peeled right before stepping on stage.

[00:11:34] However, a lot of times they're not feeling their best.

[00:11:36] You know, what's the, what's the hydration level like when you're like that?

[00:11:41] Um, you have to slowly, you have to slowly, or are you saying before the show or after?

[00:11:47] Yeah.

[00:11:47] Like when you're getting to that, that, yeah, I mean around, and I'm sure that it's within a couple of, you know, a day or two, you're kind of limiting what you're.

[00:11:56] I don't know.

[00:11:57] You can actually start limiting water early in the week.

[00:12:00] So sometimes I'll start with like two gallons of water on Sunday or Monday, and then I'll drop to a gallon and a half a gallon, um, you know, half gallon and kind of monitor it from there.

[00:12:10] Uh, so you're extremely dehydrated once you, you know, get to the show day on, on Saturday.

[00:12:15] And then you have to slowly rehydrate because if you start eating a lot of junk food and you're eating all that water or drinking all that water, then you'll end up blowing up.

[00:12:24] Uh, which is something that I've done, uh, too many times.

[00:12:29] So what you're saying, it sounds like being at that four to 5% is not healthy and sustainable.

[00:12:35] So this, this show image that people have in the social media image, that is not life.

[00:12:42] You can't look like that.

[00:12:43] It's unrealistic.

[00:12:44] Um, and, uh, anyone who's looking to attain that for a long time, uh, it's not healthy.

[00:12:51] You're not going to necessarily feel your best.

[00:12:53] Uh, so I wouldn't recommend it.

[00:12:55] Now being a little bit above that is okay.

[00:12:57] You know, that's okay to maintain.

[00:12:58] And however, when you're trying to go 4% below that, then, um, you, I would, I would never recommend it.

[00:13:05] Not for just day to day.

[00:13:07] Well, how often are you competing?

[00:13:09] Like how many shows would you do in a year?

[00:13:11] Is it one or two?

[00:13:12] Is it two or three?

[00:13:13] How many, how many times are you doing this a year?

[00:13:15] Uh, it really depends on what level you're at and how ready you are.

[00:13:20] So, uh, when I was first competing, I competed pretty often.

[00:13:24] I thought I was ready to be a pro.

[00:13:25] So I was going to nationals every year, um, and I would do a, uh, local show before then

[00:13:31] or regional level show.

[00:13:32] So I was doing at least three or four shows a year.

[00:13:36] Um, but now as a pro, once I find out, found out the teams that I need to work on, uh, then

[00:13:42] there's no need to be going ahead and just stepping on stage to get my head whooped.

[00:13:45] So let me go back to the lab.

[00:13:47] Let me figure out what it is that I need to work on and come back with an improved physique.

[00:13:51] Um, so that is going to be dependent on each athlete individually.

[00:13:55] Now you said you coached, uh, the first person you coached, you help them get on stage.

[00:14:00] Uh, do you use a coach and like a nutrition coach and all that when you get ready?

[00:14:06] Most definitely.

[00:14:07] So my coach, I'll give him a shout out.

[00:14:09] His name is Dominic Kulza.

[00:14:11] Um, man, he has been, uh, he's one of the top coaches, uh, right now in bodybuilding.

[00:14:16] In my opinion, he's a younger guy, younger than me, but five years ago, I took a chance

[00:14:21] on him.

[00:14:22] Uh, and, uh, I've learned so much from him, um, and have been continuing to learn.

[00:14:27] And my goal is to qualify for the Olympia so that we can both celebrate that moment.

[00:14:32] Wow.

[00:14:33] What, what do you have to do to qualify for that?

[00:14:35] I have to win a pro show.

[00:14:36] So my goal is to do that this year.

[00:14:39] When's that show?

[00:14:40] When's that show coming up?

[00:14:42] Uh, may or June is a timeframe that I'm, that I'm considering right now.

[00:14:47] So I'm just now starting to get back in that prep mindset.

[00:14:51] Mom, so that the new year, I'm going to go ahead and hit the ground running.

[00:14:54] That's awesome.

[00:14:54] And when was your most recent show?

[00:14:57] My most recent show was in, uh, August of 2023.

[00:15:03] I was, I got ready to compete for a show this past summer.

[00:15:07] However, I ended up calling it off.

[00:15:09] Um, so I, I didn't end up doing that one.

[00:15:11] Um, and yeah, so it's been two years since then.

[00:15:15] And when I got my last feedback, they told me just to come in leaner and come in tighter.

[00:15:19] So, uh, to answer the second part of the question you first asked, what is it that I

[00:15:24] feel like I need to work on now?

[00:15:26] Um, and at the stage that I'm at now, it's more of the mindset than even,

[00:15:31] you know, just bringing that perfect physique in order to bring the perfect physique.

[00:15:35] I feel like there's areas in my own personal mindset that I have to work on and overcome,

[00:15:40] uh, at the end because it's mentally tough once you get to those final moments.

[00:15:44] And hard when you have the other things going on, right?

[00:15:47] You got, you know, you got, you got a two year old and a, would you say a two month old

[00:15:54] too?

[00:15:55] I told my wife, I wish I was a boxer sometimes where I could just leave and go, go to camp.

[00:16:01] For, you know, prepare for a show, leave everybody and then come back afterwards.

[00:16:05] But, uh, that's unrealistic in bodybuilding right now.

[00:16:08] How does your wife handle all this?

[00:16:10] Do you get moody when you're, when you're right before a show and you're not eating much?

[00:16:14] Yeah, I have.

[00:16:15] Um, I have to practice a lot of meditation, you know, at the end of a prep, uh, just throughout

[00:16:20] the prep in general.

[00:16:21] However, uh, I have my, I have my moments and I let her know, don't take it personal.

[00:16:27] You know, it's not personal.

[00:16:29] If I'm feeling a little irritable or tired, it's not personal towards you.

[00:16:33] It's just something that I'm feeling within myself and something that I'm working to overcome

[00:16:36] within.

[00:16:37] So, um, I try not to be overly ornery or anything like that, but at the end you can't have your

[00:16:44] day.

[00:16:44] Just like any relationship at any time though, really, you know?

[00:16:49] So you got that made you, we'll have to, we'll have to get back in touch with you to

[00:16:54] see how it goes after.

[00:16:55] If you're all grumpy though, we'll wait.

[00:16:56] We won't do it beforehand.

[00:16:58] We want to make sure.

[00:16:59] Yeah.

[00:16:59] Let's do it afterwards.

[00:17:00] Let's do it afterwards.

[00:17:01] Yeah.

[00:17:02] See how that goes.

[00:17:03] Um, and so what you got feedback from your coach and from other people on things you have

[00:17:09] to work on, so are you like specifically focusing on, uh, certain muscle groups, certain areas,

[00:17:16] or are you just overall trying to get more size and then cut it down?

[00:17:20] So believe it or not, I'm actually, um, at the size limit, um, for what I compete in.

[00:17:26] They just put a weight cap on, uh, for men's physique competitor.

[00:17:30] So I compete in board shorts.

[00:17:31] A lot of guys are telling them that they have to add size in certain areas.

[00:17:35] For me, they told me there's nowhere that you need to add size.

[00:17:38] You just have to come in completely shredded.

[00:17:41] So that's the point that I'm at right now.

[00:17:43] What's that weight limit?

[00:17:46] At 177.

[00:17:47] Wait, shut up.

[00:17:48] I'm five, six, one seven and I'm currently at 225.

[00:17:53] So I'll, I'll have to get started pretty early.

[00:17:55] You got to cut 50 pounds.

[00:17:58] Thought myself get this heavy.

[00:18:00] Um, however, since I did, I got to get rid of it, but I should have, should have done a

[00:18:05] little bit better job reversing my diet post show.

[00:18:08] Well, that's it, but that day, you know, and like you're talking about, if you think of

[00:18:12] how wrestlers go about that in a healthy manner, pre pre season, they have to, they have to

[00:18:19] certify for their weight classes and stuff.

[00:18:22] Right.

[00:18:22] The same idea of like, you know, just tracking your, your body fat percentage and your hydration

[00:18:28] level and all that stuff.

[00:18:29] And just, you know, losing it in a healthy manner over the end.

[00:18:34] And timing it correctly, like you're talking about and just making sure that you time it

[00:18:38] out correctly.

[00:18:38] It shouldn't be that bad.

[00:18:40] I mean, if you, if you start early enough, right.

[00:18:42] There shouldn't, if you start early enough, it, it, it's harder for some people than others.

[00:18:46] Um, you know, everyone have, has different metabolism.

[00:18:50] Some people get shredded a lot faster where some people can put on size a lot, a lot faster.

[00:18:57] So, uh, it, it's definitely a person dependent.

[00:19:00] Um, but for me, I have to go ahead and get started early and, um, I'm killing myself at

[00:19:06] the end of a prep, just to be honest with you.

[00:19:07] I'm, I'm dying.

[00:19:08] Like, yeah, well, you see, you know what you're doing at this point in time.

[00:19:13] So you can definitely, yeah, definitely.

[00:19:15] It's something my reaction wasn't to, I, you just look like you're, uh, like 177.

[00:19:21] I think of as a twig.

[00:19:23] Um, and I know when you get on stage, you're going to be huge.

[00:19:26] So you can definitely carry 177 pounds very differently.

[00:19:30] You know, two people weigh the same exact thing and you look vastly different.

[00:19:35] Most definitely.

[00:19:36] Yeah.

[00:19:37] Most definitely.

[00:19:38] I'll.

[00:19:38] It'll be the lowest weight that I've been in years though.

[00:19:41] Um, the last, I went pro at 185 and then they ended up putting a weight cap on afterwards.

[00:19:46] So.

[00:19:47] Oh yeah.

[00:19:48] Yeah.

[00:19:49] When did you find that?

[00:19:51] So I'll have to lose down on my legs a little bit.

[00:19:54] So I'm only training them once a week right now instead of twice.

[00:19:56] Like I had been doing previously.

[00:20:01] So once.

[00:20:01] So.

[00:20:03] All right.

[00:20:04] So that's where your coach comes in.

[00:20:05] You guys set a plan and the meal, the meal plan set for, or do you reevaluate every,

[00:20:10] every like four weeks or two weeks until you get closer just to see how the, how your body's

[00:20:15] reacting?

[00:20:17] So, uh, we actually evaluate every week.

[00:20:20] I check in with him every week.

[00:20:22] Um, and then once we get closer to the show, uh, it's multiple times a week and then it

[00:20:26] even can get down to daily.

[00:20:29] Um, and then once the last week of the show, even hourly, you know, our post meal, he'll

[00:20:36] have me send pictures, send my weight and check in.

[00:20:38] Um, that's when he's carving me up.

[00:20:41] I've been figuring out how my body is responding to the carbs and how it's handling everything.

[00:20:45] So then you want to, you have to be extremely meticulous so that you can make sure that you

[00:20:50] nail your peak because, uh, just being off a little bit can cost you a show.

[00:20:55] So unlike a lot of sports, um, bodybuilding and what we do, you only get one minute pretty

[00:21:02] much to go out there and prove yourself for all the hard work.

[00:21:05] And you have to make sure that you nail it at that time specific.

[00:21:09] And there's been times where you, you look better an hour before or an hour later, but

[00:21:14] you got to nail it at that time specific.

[00:21:16] So that's another reason for starting a prep earlier so that you can go ahead and see how

[00:21:20] your body is responding to everything before actually doing the show.

[00:21:24] That's where, that's where having good coaching comes in.

[00:21:27] Somebody you can trust.

[00:21:29] And I don't, I don't worry about that.

[00:21:31] I'm my coach.

[00:21:31] I trust him.

[00:21:32] I know he knows what he's doing.

[00:21:33] So I, all I have to do is follow the plan that he puts in front of me.

[00:21:39] So, so you said, um, before the, when you started working out at age 12 and everything,

[00:21:45] it was for football and you like playing sports.

[00:21:47] Is there something you, you think you might be passionate about once all of this is done?

[00:21:53] You said you've got, you know, three or four years left.

[00:21:56] Is there like you looking back to playing basketball or, or old man softball or whatever it happens

[00:22:02] to be?

[00:22:02] Is there something else you enjoy?

[00:22:04] There is something else.

[00:22:06] Um, golf, believe it or not.

[00:22:08] I want to, I want to get more into golf.

[00:22:10] So, um, I, I used to caddy as a kid when I was 12 years old, worked in the back room

[00:22:16] at the country club and I've been golfing all my family, all was golf.

[00:22:20] So it's extremely competitive.

[00:22:22] Um, and I used to be a lot better and the best in the family.

[00:22:25] Uh, since I haven't been playing as much lately, I've been getting, you know, beat pretty often

[00:22:30] and I haven't been a fan of it.

[00:22:31] So that's how you got to plan on.

[00:22:33] Well, if, if, if you're bulking up to golf, it's all about mobility.

[00:22:37] You know what I mean?

[00:22:37] Your power, your power comes from your move.

[00:22:40] So if you're bulking up, you're, you're sifting up, you know what I mean?

[00:22:44] It can affect your game.

[00:22:45] So you got to work on that.

[00:22:47] Most definitely.

[00:22:47] Um, the old swing that I had no longer works.

[00:22:51] So I have to adjust everything to how my body is now.

[00:22:54] So, um, I plan on downsizing a little bit once I'm done competing and then yeah, golf 100%.

[00:23:01] That's what I want to do.

[00:23:02] A couple extra mobility data.

[00:23:04] Yeah.

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:06] Yeah.

[00:23:06] It's going to be seasonal there in Michigan though.

[00:23:09] You, you had your run of the mill when you were down in Miami.

[00:23:13] Or Tampa, excuse me.

[00:23:14] Now, believe it or not though, Tampa summers are like they're equivalent to Michigan winters

[00:23:18] in my opinion, because you go out there in the summertime, it's so blazing hot to where

[00:23:23] you go to swing the club and it's slipping out of your hand from sweat.

[00:23:27] So it's almost equivalent to the winter as I didn't want to play out there very much when

[00:23:32] it was too hot.

[00:23:32] I can see that.

[00:23:34] I remember going to a driver range with a buddy of mine.

[00:23:36] I think we were maybe just out of high school and we lasted 10 minutes and this is up in

[00:23:42] Massachusetts.

[00:23:42] It must've been 110 and we're just drenched and we just were like, all right, we're, what,

[00:23:47] this isn't worth it.

[00:23:48] The club slipping out of your hands and it's, it's gross.

[00:23:52] So yeah, I get that piece of it.

[00:23:53] I get that piece of it.

[00:23:56] We'll have to, we'll have to meet up in like a North Carolina or something like that as

[00:24:01] for a health movement tournament.

[00:24:02] I would love to.

[00:24:03] I would definitely love that.

[00:24:05] Myrtle beach maybe, you know?

[00:24:06] Yeah.

[00:24:07] You got this reporter, right?

[00:24:08] Nah.

[00:24:09] Yeah.

[00:24:09] Right.

[00:24:10] Yeah.

[00:24:11] Now, yeah.

[00:24:11] It's good to fit.

[00:24:12] So we said it out loud on the recordings.

[00:24:14] Yeah.

[00:24:15] We're going to do that.

[00:24:16] Maybe 2026.

[00:24:17] We'll see if we can get that going together.

[00:24:19] I get a question.

[00:24:21] How do you, how do you track your, or how do you measure your body fat percentage?

[00:24:26] Do you do like skin pinches?

[00:24:27] Do you do like an in body?

[00:24:29] Do you do like, uh, how do you, how do you do go about doing that?

[00:24:32] So I've done in body and I've done skin pinches.

[00:24:36] However, um, believe it or not, when getting ready for the show, it's a look that I'm trying

[00:24:43] to present, um, essentially.

[00:24:45] So it's not necessarily a body fat percentage that I'm chasing.

[00:24:48] So we really don't check the body fat percentage very often.

[00:24:52] It's more of, we have to get as lean as possible and bring, bring the right look to the stage.

[00:24:57] Well, and that's where the in body kind of gives you some more readings aside from just

[00:25:01] the bottom fat percentage, right?

[00:25:03] It gives you the math, the lean, lean maths and all that stuff.

[00:25:06] Right.

[00:25:06] So.

[00:25:07] Correct.

[00:25:08] Yeah.

[00:25:09] That's curious about how you go about that.

[00:25:11] We used it when I was there.

[00:25:13] I worked at the, you know, the collegiate level with, with average and stuff.

[00:25:17] We used it a lot.

[00:25:17] Same kind of idea.

[00:25:19] It's, you're not really worried so much about the body fat percentage per se depends on,

[00:25:24] you know, if you've got a skinnier athlete that you're trying to put size onto or vice

[00:25:29] versa, and you got a bigger athlete that you try to slow down.

[00:25:31] But yeah, you use, we used it more as like a gauge more than anything, you know, as you

[00:25:37] just kind of see where you're at.

[00:25:38] So I'm assuming it's probably something similar to, so.

[00:25:42] Yeah.

[00:25:42] And I've done it, you know, but it just, it's just nothing that we regularly check.

[00:25:46] Um, so I never like just took that into account when getting ready for the show.

[00:25:51] When you say, um, you got to increase cardio and all that, what sort of, is it just increase

[00:25:56] your walking?

[00:25:57] Like, is it low, low intensity stuff?

[00:26:00] So you're not, you're not hammering the muscles too hard or what do you do for that?

[00:26:05] So primarily, primarily it is, uh, low intensity.

[00:26:08] Um, I'll end up getting my heart rate up to about 130 beats per minute.

[00:26:14] Um, but other than that, that's about as high as I'll end up going with it.

[00:26:18] Now at the end, if I'm trying to get lean and I want to, you know, do it a little bit

[00:26:25] faster than we will end up adding in a little bit of hit cardio.

[00:26:28] Um, so I'll end up like doing some hit on the stairs or, or something like that.

[00:26:32] But my coach, he, he really lets me have the freedom to do whatever kind of cardio it

[00:26:36] is that I want to do.

[00:26:38] Um, and I like it that way as that's something that I can have a little bit of, uh, flexibility

[00:26:43] with and not have to feel like I'm doing the same thing every single day.

[00:26:47] Well, especially if you're chasing that one 30, that's like that, that gets boring

[00:26:51] as hell, right?

[00:26:52] Like that's, it's low.

[00:26:54] It's not like, you know, it gets, it gets me on this, especially if you're doing it

[00:26:58] for a long time, you know, that kind of thing where it can be, it can get boring.

[00:27:03] So that's what you do every day.

[00:27:06] Yeah.

[00:27:06] Yeah, definitely.

[00:27:08] Yeah.

[00:27:08] You need a good, uh, good show on Netflix and, and just hit the treadmill or get one

[00:27:13] of those new walking pads.

[00:27:14] You guys see those that pop up on, uh, I see the ads all the time.

[00:27:18] I want one of those for Christmas.

[00:27:19] I've been telling my family.

[00:27:21] That's what I'm trying to get.

[00:27:21] That's what I want too.

[00:27:22] So then I don't feel bad just sitting and watching football all day.

[00:27:25] You can do a little, you can get your steps in.

[00:27:27] Watch, you know, watch us on YouTube.

[00:27:29] You know what I mean?

[00:27:30] Yeah, definitely.

[00:27:31] Definitely.

[00:27:32] I've watched a couple of the episodes.

[00:27:34] Nice.

[00:27:35] We appreciate that.

[00:27:36] See how I stuck the YouTube plug in there, Derek?

[00:27:39] I did.

[00:27:39] I did.

[00:27:39] That was well done.

[00:27:40] That was well done.

[00:27:41] Cause I forgot among other things to do at the beginning.

[00:27:44] So if you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple podcasts, head over to the YouTube

[00:27:49] channel, the health movement podcast on YouTube, where you can see all our smiling faces.

[00:27:56] It's a gift.

[00:27:57] I know.

[00:28:00] So, um, in terms of, you said it was 2023 was your last show.

[00:28:09] Um, have you had to deal with injuries from, from lifting or anything like that?

[00:28:15] I'm actually dealing with the first one that I've had right now.

[00:28:19] Oh no.

[00:28:21] What is it?

[00:28:21] Yeah.

[00:28:22] Uh, my shoulder.

[00:28:23] I don't know if it's an impingement or what it is, but what, what I've realized is one thing

[00:28:29] I've neglected is the mobility side of things, uh, earlier in my bodybuilding career.

[00:28:34] So it's something that I've been working on a lot more now.

[00:28:37] Um, but my chest is so tight to where I think it's caused some shoulder pain.

[00:28:42] So I'm trying to open up, you know, this upper chest.

[00:28:45] Um, and I believe it's also caused my upper chest not to develop as well as it, as it potentially

[00:28:52] could in my own personal opinion.

[00:28:54] So, um, just trying to work on being a lot more mobile stretching and, you know, kind of

[00:29:00] getting deep into even the lats, but underneath my arm even.

[00:29:04] And just kind of releasing whatever it is right here in the chest area.

[00:29:08] So do you get a good amount of, and I'm glad Derek kind of touched on that.

[00:29:12] Cause that was kind of my next question was, do you get a lot of stuff?

[00:29:15] If you work done, you get, you know, that kind of stuff done routinely with routine for

[00:29:19] them.

[00:29:20] Yeah.

[00:29:20] So I'll get, I don't necessarily do too much soft tissue, but I'll get deep tissue

[00:29:25] work done.

[00:29:26] Um, yeah, yeah.

[00:29:27] Yeah.

[00:29:28] So that's kind of where I was going.

[00:29:30] Yeah.

[00:29:30] Soft tissue is just like your muscle, like the, the muscle, like versus, you know, bone

[00:29:34] or whatever like that.

[00:29:35] So that's it.

[00:29:35] So yeah.

[00:29:36] So like a deep, so you do get like a deep, like, and that's where that, that's the kind

[00:29:41] of stuff I have, I have a pretty decent background in all stuff.

[00:29:43] So that's, that can make a big difference in muscle, you know, muscle, uh, efficiency

[00:29:48] and all that kind of stuff too.

[00:29:50] So most, most definitely.

[00:29:51] It's something that I neglected for a while.

[00:29:54] Um, as when I first started, we didn't have the same access to a YouTube.

[00:29:59] Everyone wasn't as informational or just giving out as much knowledge, uh, starting off.

[00:30:04] So, uh, I've been learning a lot kind of at you, at YouTube university right now, just

[00:30:08] trying to figure out how to, how to get out of this to open up and just taking, taking

[00:30:13] care of myself a little bit more with mobility.

[00:30:15] Um, as I've realized the older I get, uh, it's something that becomes a lot more important.

[00:30:22] Yeah.

[00:30:22] Yeah.

[00:30:22] And it, and it really is a big thing.

[00:30:24] And, and also with things like that understanding, like you said, like getting into your lap where

[00:30:29] you're pointing to the front of your chest, but understanding that it's all connected, everything

[00:30:35] that attaches to that shoulder, even your shoulder blade, that scapula, it's all connected

[00:30:41] and it's a kinetic chain, right?

[00:30:43] So it really does, it really, everything affects each other because there's so much overlap

[00:30:47] and so much, everything's so interconnected.

[00:30:50] Yeah, it is.

[00:30:51] That, that is a big, in, in that's a, I'm glad, I'm so glad you've mentioned that there.

[00:30:55] Cause there's, again, this is more my, this is your wheelhouse.

[00:30:58] I know.

[00:30:59] It's how you guys.

[00:31:00] I'm trying to learn right now, so go ahead.

[00:31:02] Yeah.

[00:31:03] So that's like, and, and, and this is something we can talk about off the podcast too, if you

[00:31:06] got questions or anything like that.

[00:31:08] Definitely.

[00:31:08] Um, because, you know, it, it, it, it's the kind of thing where understand and it goes back

[00:31:15] to, that's where I, I lit up when you're talking, you know, your, uh, your one takeaway where you're

[00:31:20] talking about feeling that one muscle group.

[00:31:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:29] They maybe aren't using a muscle as efficiently or our muscle isn't working as efficiently

[00:31:35] as they could be.

[00:31:36] And sometimes it's hard to, I mean, there are certain muscles where you're like, all

[00:31:41] right, like the bigger muscles, your pet, your trap, your lats, like you can really connect

[00:31:45] to that.

[00:31:46] But when you're trying to go, go to like your smaller, your rotator cuff muscles or your,

[00:31:51] uh, you know, your scapular stabilizers or, you know, those more intrinsic, smaller muscles,

[00:31:56] it's hard, it's hard to make that connection or really isolate that muscle or how you feel

[00:32:01] that muscle.

[00:32:02] So it, it really important to work on those things.

[00:32:06] And I'm speaking to you, but I'm kind of speaking, you know, plainly here too.

[00:32:10] It's it, I see this a lot and, and I find myself doing it too.

[00:32:15] It's easy to say these things, but once you put it into practice, it's hard as hell to do

[00:32:20] it.

[00:32:20] And, and, and a lot of the times, like you're talking about having a coach, you're talking

[00:32:25] about having somebody that it is, it doesn't necessarily have to be a bodybuilding coach,

[00:32:30] but somebody that can teach form somebody that.

[00:32:32] Uh, has a rehab background or something, you know, either a physical therapy or, uh, athletic

[00:32:37] training or sports medicine or, um, you know, I've met plenty of, uh, strength and conditioning

[00:32:42] coaches or, um, uh, massage therapists that all have these, you know, in, or some, somewhere

[00:32:48] of some combination of those, those, uh, credentials.

[00:32:51] Like there are plenty of people out there that, that know how to teach these things.

[00:32:57] And, and, and to kind of go where you're talking about the YouTube stuff, that's a slippery

[00:33:01] slope too, because there's so much, there's so much information out there too.

[00:33:06] It's like, all right, well, it's how do you filter through all that stuff and get the,

[00:33:10] get the meat and potatoes, the good, you know, the good, um, actual information out of that

[00:33:16] stuff and apply that to what, because like you're talking about, everybody's different

[00:33:19] and, and you're, you're building different than mine and Derek's built different than

[00:33:22] both of us.

[00:33:23] And it's, and, and how do you identify that stuff really, really goes a long way.

[00:33:28] And especially for something like what you're doing, because it's such a, it's such a neat

[00:33:32] thing and you're working to, to build all of these different muscle groups.

[00:33:37] And, um, that kind of stuff is, you know, it, it really can be when it is that razor

[00:33:45] thin difference that you're talking about of you're trying to peak in this small, small,

[00:33:51] tiny window and trying to make sure that you're maximizing everything that you can, that 1%

[00:33:58] difference can, can make or break you.

[00:34:00] So it's, you know, that kind of stuff is, is important.

[00:34:03] And I, I, you can tell people, and this is more, this is more like, you know, not so

[00:34:08] much about the bodybuilding stuff, but I used to tell people, you need to, you need to focus

[00:34:12] on mobility just as much as you focus on your, your, your strength gains and all that kind

[00:34:19] of stuff, because you need that joint to go through its whole, you know, range of motion

[00:34:24] to be able to maximize that muscle potential.

[00:34:28] And if, if you can't do that, then that's where it's, that's when you're going to start getting

[00:34:31] into trouble and you're going to start to find, you know, things like that are going

[00:34:35] to add up too.

[00:34:36] So kind of went off my tangent.

[00:34:38] I'll get off myself.

[00:34:39] No, I'm happy, I'm happy you said that though, but a lot of people, they don't realize that

[00:34:46] not, not working on mobility, that causes a lot of, a lot of muscle imbalances as well.

[00:34:51] So you'll have these guys that'll go into the gym and they're kind of jacked up a little

[00:34:55] bit and they're training this muscle, but they're training this one, one way because it's more

[00:34:59] opened up where this other side is, it's, you know, a little bit tighter and they're

[00:35:04] training.

[00:35:04] However, they're getting a better connection one way or one side, but not the other.

[00:35:09] And after a lot of time, you'll eventually see, you know, a difference there, even if

[00:35:13] it's, you know, kind of my new starting off, but long of doing it, you'll start to have

[00:35:17] muscle imbalances in your body.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:19] And the muscle will develop differently.

[00:35:21] So for your case, it's going to look different, right?

[00:35:24] So like you want, and that's what you want, like in our, and this is what I, this is how

[00:35:28] I preach, um, my rehab approach or even just a strength approach is you're, you're chasing

[00:35:34] symmetry.

[00:35:35] You want your body to be symmetrical, right to left, front to back, top to bottom, like

[00:35:39] you're chasing that symmetry.

[00:35:40] And you throw in what you're doing even more so because it's, it's a functionality symmetry,

[00:35:47] but it's also an aesthetic too.

[00:35:50] So you want it to look the same, right?

[00:35:52] So that's, it's almost too cold for what you're doing.

[00:35:55] And I mean, the, the old, the old joke about bodybuilders is, you know, you got this guy

[00:36:00] that's so big that his arms and everything, he's so stiff that he can't wipe his butt.

[00:36:04] Right.

[00:36:04] Like that's like, that's like the, um, the stereotype, I guess.

[00:36:09] Right.

[00:36:09] So like that's, that's in, in to be able to have that mobility.

[00:36:14] That's where, and go back to the golf thing.

[00:36:16] Like that's, you know, that it all kind of ties in where it's, uh, it's gonna, it's gonna

[00:36:20] help you in the long run.

[00:36:22] You might not, you might not be able to go through that full range of motion, but you

[00:36:26] need to motion and lotion.

[00:36:28] And the more you work on it, the better you're going to get at it.

[00:36:30] And it's that kind of working on your weaknesses is what you need to do.

[00:36:34] Right.

[00:36:35] Yeah.

[00:36:36] And somebody like yourself, that'll be your weakness.

[00:36:39] Yeah.

[00:36:39] I used to think that, you know, bodybuilders, because of, we have so much muscle that, you

[00:36:44] know, we're not able to stretch because of all the muscle.

[00:36:46] However, uh, I see, we have some guys right now, um, at the top of the pro league, 300

[00:36:52] pounds, able to do a, do a split full split, you know?

[00:36:55] So I'm like, all right, there goes that, that myth, you know?

[00:36:58] Yeah.

[00:36:59] Okay.

[00:37:00] So muscle, it's not like, no matter how big the muscle is, you can still stretch and have

[00:37:05] that flexibility and mobility.

[00:37:07] So.

[00:37:07] And it's, it's the quality of the muscle tissue, right?

[00:37:09] So it's what you're putting into your body too, that creates it.

[00:37:12] And it's, it's a, it's a multi-factored thing.

[00:37:16] It's your hydration.

[00:37:17] What's your, uh, what's your nutrition?

[00:37:19] Like, what are you doing to address the muscle tissue?

[00:37:22] Are you, are you trying to work on the tissue density?

[00:37:25] That's where I'm talking about the soft tissue work.

[00:37:27] Like for somebody like what you guys are doing, I mean, I would say weekly at, at least, you

[00:37:33] know what I mean?

[00:37:33] Once a week, if not, if not more, you know, I would have somebody like if, if for you,

[00:37:39] for your case specifically without looking at you and, and really knowing what's going

[00:37:44] on, I would say twice a week minimum, you know what I mean?

[00:37:47] To work on, to work specifically on what you're feeling and then everything ancillary around

[00:37:52] it.

[00:37:52] And then trying to, trying to get that to open up, you know what I mean?

[00:37:56] And I love that you use that term open up because that's what it is.

[00:37:59] It's like, it's just stuck in stiff and you just got to get it to let go.

[00:38:03] Oh yeah.

[00:38:04] Yeah.

[00:38:06] I was, uh, when you were talking and, and, and hitting like the pec to the lat, to the,

[00:38:12] you know, to the delt and everything.

[00:38:13] Um, I had had some bicep tendonitis, which I mentioned before, uh, and Tim worked on me

[00:38:18] a little bit and then he gave me things to do with a softball and I was rolling my pec

[00:38:23] down my bicep, my shoulder, my tricep.

[00:38:26] And it was the bottom of the bicep where the issue was.

[00:38:29] And I would only, I watched YouTube and did the things that they told me.

[00:38:32] I'm like, all right, this is what, this is a stretch.

[00:38:34] I didn't never help.

[00:38:36] Uh, but Tim was able to like explain it better to me and how it's all connected and how you

[00:38:41] gotta, you gotta open up everything so that you can relieve some of that stress where the

[00:38:47] issue, where the hurt is.

[00:38:49] That doesn't necessarily mean that's where the issue is.

[00:38:52] Yeah.

[00:38:52] Yeah.

[00:38:53] Yeah.

[00:38:54] I've been, I was using a tennis ball earlier today trying to get everything open.

[00:38:58] You gotta, you gotta graduate my man.

[00:39:01] You gotta get into a cross ball.

[00:39:02] I do.

[00:39:02] I definitely do.

[00:39:03] I do.

[00:39:04] The cross ball feels good.

[00:39:06] It does.

[00:39:07] What about, do you use like a massage gun or anything like that?

[00:39:10] You got, you got all that kind of stuff.

[00:39:11] I would assume probably.

[00:39:13] So I'll use that and I'll even, uh, kind of just go over my body, whatever muscle group

[00:39:18] I'm training for the day.

[00:39:19] I'll use that, uh, over that muscle group as well before I go and train just to kind of

[00:39:24] get loosened up a little bit.

[00:39:25] Yeah.

[00:39:26] And I, I used to tell people like the, I love the Theragun.

[00:39:29] Absolutely love it.

[00:39:30] And I tell people, cause the Theragun, for what it is, there's cheaper alternatives out

[00:39:35] there, right?

[00:39:36] There's, there's, but I don't think there's any, I don't think there's anything comparable

[00:39:41] to what Theragun provides.

[00:39:43] Like it's just the top, top of the line.

[00:39:45] Again, we need to start getting some, uh, some, some royalty for some of the things that

[00:39:49] we're pushing on there.

[00:39:51] But, uh, but honestly, I, I've, I've used that.

[00:39:54] I've used a few other of the different, uh, a couple of the knockoffs, a few of the different

[00:39:58] brands.

[00:39:59] And it just, I, I love, I love what that actually brings to the table.

[00:40:03] But I also, I tell people too, that it's a supplement.

[00:40:08] It shouldn't replace the actual rolling of the, of the tissue too, because the gun, you're

[00:40:13] just, you're just kind of beating it up.

[00:40:15] Right.

[00:40:15] And it helps with, you know, it's like a meat tenderizer.

[00:40:18] It kind of softens it up a little bit and it gets flood flow going to the area.

[00:40:22] But I like, uh, I like to roll it out with a lacrosse ball or something like that too,

[00:40:26] because it promotes kind of lengthening of that muscle.

[00:40:28] And it's just a different type of, um, and I like being able to do those kinds of things

[00:40:34] with movement too.

[00:40:35] Right.

[00:40:36] So working through the range of motion that, that you're either restricted in or you're

[00:40:40] having, uh, and again, this is consult your physician before you do any of these things,

[00:40:45] um, and, and work with a professional.

[00:40:48] But these are things that I like to, um, I like to tell people that I work with to, and

[00:40:54] it really, and this is something I put into practice for myself too.

[00:40:58] It makes a difference and it might not, it might not cure it day one, but your consistency

[00:41:03] and, and you're somebody that lives the inconsistency and discipline, right?

[00:41:07] But that's those kinds of things where it, it, it just taking that little bit of extra

[00:41:11] time, um, can go a long way in relieving all the things too.

[00:41:16] Most definitely.

[00:41:17] And like for me, it's something that I have to, I have to make sure that I'm adding in

[00:41:22] my programming though, or it's something that I can put on the background or, you know,

[00:41:26] and I'm not in the patch.

[00:41:28] So.

[00:41:28] Yeah.

[00:41:29] And if you don't make time for it, it's going to, it could lead to, you know, bigger issues

[00:41:33] too.

[00:41:34] So it's, it's a, you got to prioritize it.

[00:41:38] Yeah.

[00:41:38] You already said you're going to Mr. Olympia.

[00:41:40] So it's, you can't, you know, you've got to prioritize now.

[00:41:44] You can, you can, I would say you could drop that.

[00:41:47] You can most definitely, I'm putting it out there.

[00:41:49] I like that.

[00:41:50] I like that.

[00:41:51] A little visualization there too.

[00:41:54] Most definitely.

[00:41:55] Well, you got your kids now too.

[00:41:57] So you got to be able to say, yo, dad's Mr. Olympia.

[00:41:59] Go to bed when I say to, you know, whatever I tell them now is not working.

[00:42:05] So if that's what works, then I'm definitely about to go.

[00:42:12] That I'll give you five bucks.

[00:42:14] If you go to bed right now, I don't tell you the bribery.

[00:42:17] Oh, Jay.

[00:42:21] Well, we really appreciate you taking the time to hop on and, and for people listening, Jay

[00:42:27] wasn't scheduled till Thursday.

[00:42:28] And we had a, you know, we had a little change of schedule with, with an earlier one and he

[00:42:33] was gracious enough to, to hop on here with us tonight.

[00:42:37] Um, so we really, really appreciate you taking the time.

[00:42:41] Um, do you want to plug anything?

[00:42:43] Um, I am an online health and fitness coach.

[00:42:46] I don't only work with competitors.

[00:42:48] Uh, so I work with, um, I have clients ranging from, uh, 82 years old all the way down to 17

[00:42:56] years old, 17 years old.

[00:42:57] So male and female.

[00:42:58] So, um, and it's something that I'm passionate about.

[00:43:01] And where do they find you?

[00:43:02] I'll throw it in the show notes.

[00:43:03] You can go to my Instagram, uh, Jay Riggs fit, um, or my website, bet on you fitness.com.

[00:43:09] Um, but Instagram, uh, LinkedIn, I have to, I have to be, be a little bit more active on

[00:43:16] LinkedIn.

[00:43:16] I think that's right.

[00:43:18] But I, I'm not very active on LinkedIn.

[00:43:21] So I got to set my game up there.

[00:43:22] Yeah.

[00:43:23] My, my social media game is pretty poor too.

[00:43:26] Yeah.

[00:43:26] Mine is true.

[00:43:28] Without Chris, I'd have nothing out there.

[00:43:30] I just random clips, three of these a week.

[00:43:32] And, and that's, that's about the extent of it.

[00:43:35] But that's awesome.

[00:43:37] Well, I appreciate you all having me on today.

[00:43:39] Um, and, and I'm looking forward to the growth of the podcast and everything for you

[00:43:42] all as well.

[00:43:44] Um, we appreciate that.

[00:43:45] We really do.

[00:43:46] What is it?

[00:43:47] The 22nd or 23rd?

[00:43:48] 22.

[00:43:49] Yeah.

[00:43:50] 22nd.

[00:43:51] Yeah.

[00:43:51] So keep it up, man.

[00:43:53] Appreciate you, man.

[00:43:54] This was great.

[00:43:55] Everybody listening.

[00:43:56] Thank you so much for taking the time to, to hang out with us.

[00:44:00] We'll be back, uh, again, the following week.

[00:44:03] I don't know if it'll compete with Jay.

[00:44:04] Um, probably not, but anyway, we'll, we'll keep trying.

[00:44:08] I'm sure it will.

[00:44:09] Yeah.